Curse

Red Sonya · Oct 21, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

GW2 is going to be designed for the old and the new. I'm sure they want to draw some of that population from WoW and will make GW2 that type of a draw without it being such a pure grindfest. It's just going to be more of both I think. A larger world to play in. More people in a combat zone (hopefully no ksing or whinning and griping about this is my spot type stuff though) and they will finally separate pve from pvp so pve players don't feel ripped off everytime there is a pvp update. It's going to be much better an improved for everyone and only the old grogs who don't want anyone to be able to play any other way but their way will be disappointed in it. Those that scream the excuse time and time again GW is suppose to be skill>time, well it was for awhile but anet never said it would be this way forever.

Hyper.nl · Oct 22, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

I really hope GW2 will have titles, and I expect it to have them.

For me, titles proved to be a nice target to work towards in the game and achieve something not every other player has. Titles are a nice way to distinguish your character imo.

Bazompora · Oct 22, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kradens

either decide your going to be a title achieving player....or not. and decide very early on. (its not a nice experiance trying to achieve legendary guardian 2 and a half years down the line from the release....you probably wont find anyone).

See, titles would be OK, if you have the choice to leave them but and not be disadvantaged for that choice. As it is now in GW1, that's not the case for title tracks as Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Luck, Luxon, Kurzick and Lightbringer, who put players at a disadvantage, if they don't gain ranks in them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kradens

im planning not to give rats-A in GW2. my chars gonna be running around cheap armor forever XD im gonna concentrate more on enjoying the game and playing with other people than be a gear/title-wh0re.

So am I, but I do hope we will not be virtually taxed for actually playing the game in GW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

For me, titles proved to be a nice target to work towards in the game and achieve something not every other player has. Titles are a nice way to distinguish your character imo.

Titles don't distinguish you, because, in a gameplay wrapped around titles, everyone has them.
The only thing they do, is showing how hard players work the game, as they gain ranks slower or faster than each other.

Red Sonya · Oct 22, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Titles don't distinguish you? Haha then why do I get asked all the time about my Imp Slaying title? Oh they distinquish you alright it just depends on the title. Just like the rank emotes distinquish skilled players in pvp. Some titles distinquish you for skilled play and extended play in the pve game. Some titles are envyable and don't think some of them are not. I figure most people that complain bout titles are the jealous ones who just don't have the "TIME" to go out there and get them. Thus why they bring up skill>time rediculous argument everytime something doesn't go their way. But, as I said before Anet never said skill>time would always be their #1 priority and that things would never change. Things do change and have changed and for the better and it's grrrrrrrrreaaaaaaaaaat.

Bazompora · Oct 22, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Titles don't distinguish you? Haha then why do I get asked all the time about my Imp Slaying title? Oh they distinquish you alright it just depends on the title.

They sure don't distinguish you from another with that title. You're just another guy with the Imp Slaying title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Just like the rank emotes distinquish skilled players in pvp.

You honestly believe that? How comes I <without rank emote> can still beat players with a rank emote?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Some titles distinquish you for skilled play and extended play in the pve game. Some titles are envyable and don't think some of them are not.

Oh, I've no problem with you having your decorations.
However, I object to being taxed on my salvages and PvE über-skills for not having grinded sufficient rank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

I figure most people that complain bout titles are the jealous ones who just don't have the "TIME" to go out there and get them..

Have you ever thought it could also be that those who complain don't have the time and are penalised by the game for not having sufficiently high ranks (think Treasure Hunter, Lightbringer, etc.)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Thus why they bring up skill>time rediculous argument everytime something doesn't go their way.

Actually, it is just the opposite: grind came up our way, when we didn't want to commit to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

But, as I said before Anet never said skill>time would always be their #1 priority and that things would never change.

I recall them stating "skill > time" as one of the main principles GW is build upon.
They also sold us the game under that claim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Things do change and have changed and for the better and it's grrrrrrrrreaaaaaaaaaat.

Then whyyyyyyyyyyy are people so unhappy with it?

BlackSephir · Oct 22, 2007, 02:43 PM // 14:43

AFAIK, higher Hero rank doesn't give you any bonuses. No +dmg, no dmg reduction, skills don't become more efficient.

Nemo the Capitalist · Oct 22, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Arne Is PRO

Of course not. GWs was a guinea pig, GW2 will not be trash.

how misleaded u are. U clearly dont see the cheese above ur heaad do u?

Gw2 will have titles and we will all complain about it.

Titles are meant for u to waste time on game so u can be l337.

More time to waste ty anet btw i seriously bet they will have titles

gg anet

HawkofStorms · Oct 22, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

See, titles would be OK, if you have the choice to leave them but and not be disadvantaged for that choice. As it is now in GW1, that's not the case for title tracks as Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Luck, Luxon, Kurzick and Lightbringer, who put players at a disadvantage, if they don't gain ranks in them.

Bolded the ones I disagree with. There is one thing people ALWAYS forget about with those titles. Yes, having treasure hunter, wisdom, and luck will allow you to make more money over time with salvaging and chest opening. HOWEVER, the initial investment to get those titles in the first place is a large sum of money. So to get those titles in the first place, you have to go in heavy debt. Although you could eventually work it off, the amount of money actually "earned" by having those titles isn't as signifcant as a lot of people assume.

Bazompora · Oct 22, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

the initial investment to get those titles in the first place is a large sum of money. So to get those titles in the first place, you have to go in heavy debt.

Debt? I ain't seen no banks in GW1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Although you could eventually work it off

... after an incredibly insane amount of grind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

the amount of money actually "earned" by having those titles isn't as signifcant as a lot of people assume.

Loosing a 15K armor piece because insufficient rank has been grinded or not daring to salvage costy components of costy weapons, that would both earn more K's separately, does not strike me as insignificant.

Antheus · Oct 22, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Haha then why do I get asked all the time about my Imp Slaying title? Oh they distinquish you alright it just depends on the title.

Slayer of Imps a distinction?

Thanks, but I don't need that kind of distinction.

What's next? People being amazed at someone logged in?

Then again, people will take flattery over anything, so if that's all it takes to keep people happy (the title owners) and amazed (the non title owners), then it would merely define the usual lowest common denominator gameplay.

The reason people so strongly defend the titles in GW, is because compared to any other game, most of them are insanely easy to obtain.

This aspect of PvE will be sorely missing from GW2. Then, many of those who enjoy their special status right now, will face the true grind and true level dependence.

GW is still skill-based. Same goes for almost all titles. GW2 will be grind-based.

Red Sonya · Oct 22, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

AFAIK, higher Hero rank doesn't give you any bonuses. No +dmg, no dmg reduction, skills don't become more efficient.

Not sure what you're talking about, but, higher faction with kurzicks or luxons do increase your skill power with the skills you get from them.

To the other character above who tore my post up into quotes. As many people are happy with the changes as those that aren't. Since there is no data to support either side it's easy to make these "assumptions" like you did. Just have to face it whatever GW was built upon is merely the foundation, there are still walls and floorings and windows and decorations to follow. So, skill>time was a mere starting point it wasn't the beall endall of the game design as you can see from the recent chapter and expansion. Grind and titles and all those things that go along with it are HERE TO STAY bud, you can either go along with the flow or quit dontchaknow?

Red Sonya · Oct 22, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Bolded the ones I disagree with. There is one thing people ALWAYS forget about with those titles. Yes, having treasure hunter, wisdom, and luck will allow you to make more money over time with salvaging and chest opening. HOWEVER, the initial investment to get those titles in the first place is a large sum of money. So to get those titles in the first place, you have to go in heavy debt. Although you could eventually work it off, the amount of money actually "earned" by having those titles isn't as signifcant as a lot of people assume.

Actually you are wrong here because you don't have to spend one dime to get the treasure hunter and wisdom titles. All you have to do is play and get the key DROPS and I get two keys nearly ever zone I go into so I'm not spending anything if I dont want to. Now, if I want to RUSH a title then it will cost money, but, if you play casually you don't have to invest a dime.

Kurzick faction for the PVE skills is another one where you make money everytime you go out on a faction adventure. Some would call it grind, I personally have fun doing it. Doesn't cost me a dime and I get gold drops and keys still from doing it.

I have a HARD MODE area I play in constantly that yields 2-4 golds per run and still lockpicks that DROP off the mobs. I'm finding if you complete the ENTIRE zone you get a lot more LOOT than if you just try to farm a portion of it. You also get more key drops and thus more chests to open for treasure hunter title and gold drops to inspect for wisdom title.

Works for me and not costing me a dime.

Alicendre · Oct 22, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Still, a question goes through my mind.
Why does Anet want me, who payed for all chapters, and even bought GWEN on the online store, to be "punished" (not rewarded) because I don't like grinding ?

If people get rewards from killing masses of Guardians, then I want a reward for roleplaying.

BlackSephir · Oct 22, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Not sure what you're talking about, but, higher faction with kurzicks or luxons do increase your skill power with the skills you get from them.

Yeah, the more time you spend in ab/on FFF the better your pve skills get.
GG AN.

Quote:

Why does Anet want me, who payed for all chapters, and even bought GWEN on the online store, to be "punished" (not rewarded) because I don't like grinding ?

I bet you 5k that someone will jump out with "you don't have to grind or use pve-only skills" or something like that

HawkofStorms · Oct 22, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Actually you are wrong here because you don't have to spend one dime to get the treasure hunter and wisdom titles. All you have to do is play and get the key DROPS and I get two keys nearly ever zone I go into so I'm not spending anything if I dont want to. Now, if I want to RUSH a title then it will cost money, but, if you play casually you don't have to invest a dime.

Kurzick faction for the PVE skills is another one where you make money everytime you go out on a faction adventure. Some would call it grind, I personally have fun doing it. Doesn't cost me a dime and I get gold drops and keys still from doing it.

I have a HARD MODE area I play in constantly that yields 2-4 golds per run and still lockpicks that DROP off the mobs. I'm finding if you complete the ENTIRE zone you get a lot more LOOT than if you just try to farm a portion of it. You also get more key drops and thus more chests to open for treasure hunter title and gold drops to inspect for wisdom title.

Works for me and not costing me a dime.

Right. Lucky title costs over 2 million gold to max.

And the money I'm talking about making is money you make by salvaing blue items in mass to make money over time.

The money "lost" by breaking expensive armor or items can be avoided by using perfect salvage kits. I'm talking about breaking down cheaper items for profit.

RedNova88 · Oct 22, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Then whyyyyyyyyyyy are people so unhappy with it?

Didn't see anyone complain about titles until this thread was posted.

Likelytodie · Oct 22, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

/Hopeful titles stay

Titles are optional, you don't absolutely need any title. For me, titles are something that I can do and they give me a goal in the game. Others don't care as much for the idea of titles, and aren't forced to do them. I don't see the problem.

Bazompora · Oct 22, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

GW is still skill-based. Same goes for almost all titles.

I don't think skill poses a problem there; I managed to make a start in all those titles (except the GvG one and the EotN one, 'cause I haven't decided to buy it yet), but realised it would take a insanely amount of grind repetion to make usefull advance. It was, simply, not fun to keep at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

GW2 will be grind-based.

Oh, I really hope not; grind should be completely optional (thus not give gameplay advantages), lest they intend to become "just another subscription free MMO".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

As many people are happy with the changes as those that aren't.

Oh, I don't know, and neither do you. What I do know, is that alot more people could be happy if they weren't taxed for not grinding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Since there is no data to support either side it's easy to make these "assumptions" like you did.

I've no data, but only my experience with GW from the Open Alpha, the Open Beta and from 1 month after realease till now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Just have to face it whatever GW was built upon is merely the foundation, there are still walls and floorings and windows and decorations to follow. So, skill>time was a mere starting point it wasn't the beall endall of the game design as you can see from the recent chapter and expansion.

Titles and the decision to add grind instead of interesting new gameplay came halfway through GW's lifespan, between Factions and Nightfall. Which was about the time the devs decided to "remake" into GW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Grind and titles and all those things that go along with it are HERE TO STAY

Oh, I agree: compulsory grind will STAY HERE IN GW1. But we're talking GW2, which hasn't been confirmed to be grind-enforcing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

bud, you can either go along with the flow or quit dontchaknow?

Eh ... noe!

If the flow runs into a bottomless pit, I'd rather attempt to readjust it; but you go ahead!
And again, we're discussing different flows: you're talking GW1 and I'm talking GW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

...

Works for me and not costing me a dime.

So you optimalised your grind? Nice for you, but at the best you'll get it, it's still mind-numbing grind! And the title tracks that tax you are among the most grind demanding.
The difference between me and grind-lovers is that I can't keep on running on the grindmill like a hamster without getting absolutely disgusted by it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

The money "lost" by breaking expensive armor or items can be avoided by using perfect salvage kits.

They came too late and are costing skill points (which require grind too) on top of the regular grind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNova88

Didn't see anyone complain about titles until this thread was posted.

Well, you didn't look well enough then. When people talk about grind in other threads and in the game, what do you think they're talking about?
This thread is only the tip of the iceberg, that just pierced through the surface. Dissatisfaction was there growing all the time; it has become concentrated enough to voice itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Likelytodie

Titles are optional, you don't absolutely need any title. For me, titles are something that I can do and they give me a goal in the game. Others don't care as much for the idea of titles, and aren't forced to do them. I don't see the problem.

They're not all that optional; read up.

However, I don't get why some want certain titles to remain compulsory; why do grind-enforcement defenders want everyone to be compelled into the grindmill or taxed for failing to grind enough?

roflcopter2445 · Oct 22, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I think they might've mentioned something like this when the Hall of Monuments was brought in, don't really remember though. It'd be nice, but not a necessity.

Likelytodie · Oct 22, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Is this what you're referring to when you say to read up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Oh, I really hope not; grind should be completely optional (thus not give gameplay advantages), lest they intend to become "just another subscription free MMO".

"thus not give game play advantages"

Just because they decided to reward the people who have decided to angle their game play towards the title-grind does not mean that the title is no longer completely optional.

Optional - Adj. - left to one's choice; not required or mandatory

So, what are any of the titles required for? Anet lets you choose in which direction you angle your game play. The fact that it gives you a slight advantage (almost non-existent and not required to play the game) does not compromise the fact that it is still optional.